Why we Ride / Motorcycle Snobs

Can't we all just get along ????????? I just don't understand some people sometimes. We all have our reasons why we ride. Lets face it, we all {most} love the Harley's. Their big, Beautiful, and awsome sounding. But lets face it,,,,,,,, THEY ARE OVER PRICED ! Almost all the gear is labeled "Harley Davidson"  Since I dont ride one, I don't want it on my stuff {jacket, helmet, shirts etc.} and don't want to be called a "wanna be" real Biker.    I am a real biker ! So I ride a Yahama / Star. I love it ! and it cost me a third of what a simular Harley would have cost. We all ride because WE LOVE TO RIDE ! So why does it matter as long as we are happy with what we ride ? I understand loving the brand we have, and the chapters we belong to, but that does not mean we are better or worse than anyone else ! I belong to Star International, Chapter 132, I wear my vest / jacket and fly my "colors" whenever I ride. I have pride in my chapter {group} we all should.   I talk to others and swap stories with alot of different groups, but, a few of the bigger groups, mainley the HOG's seem to look down on us like we are just pretending to be bikers. Sometimes I catch some flack from the Goldwing group, but not alot. Goldwing groups think they are better than everyone because their bikes cost more {I guess} they pretty much stick to theirselves. The HOG's on the other hand, as I have looked at some of their bikes, and asked questions, when they see I don't ride a Harley, seem to be real snobs, like I am a below sub par human and just flat out ingore me. I have even had some Hog's try to intimadate me on the highways, they ride up, crank up the throttle etc, and take off. Its really is ok that we all don't look like dried up road worn, dirty, long haired / bearded, tattoo covered "Hard core, Hells Angels" type bikers {and I don't want to either}. Its really a shame to have such childish nonsence out there. Everyone has their reasons they ride the bike they do. I don't want to and am sick and tired of tired of hearing the "Buy American" arguement. There is NOTHING wrong with Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda, etc, they are all fine bikes in their own right. I say we are all brothers {and sisters} on 2 wheels !  

Sorry to be going off on a tanget, I was gassing my bike up tonight to go to work and had some trouble with a couple of HOG's, lucky it didnt come to blows, but thats because a cop pulled in after seeing us exchange a few words. I normaly try to just ignore them, but they kept pushing tonight and it got a little ugly.    

Lets all just enjoy the road, the ride, life and friends. Its too short as it is !  

Has anyone else had this problem ?  

Here's something I posted on another forum a while back. You may find it helpful :-)

The Biker: Some people really like to ride a motorcycle. When they find one that feels really good, they routinely put more than 25,000 miles on it each year. The occasional 70,000 mile year is not out of the question.

HasBeen A Biker: Still rides 20,000 to 25,000 miles a year but... He just can't seem to find the right bike and now he's starting to get tired of buying new bikes every few years in his search for another perfect bike.

The Rider: Proud of his skills, a rider spends enough time on his bike to keep those skills honed. This will normally take 15,000 to 20,000 miles a year.

Fair Weather Rider: Doesn't even own a rain suit or cold weather riding gear. Might ride 10,000 to 15,000 miles, if it's a warm dry year.

The Commuter: He'd rather be doing something other than riding, but will still probably put somewhere between 8,000 and 10,000 miles on the bike each year.

The Poser: Rides enough to usually avoid embarrasing himself by dropping it while trying to back into the parking spot in front of the biker bar. When that happens, he changes bars for a few months. Rides 5,000 to 8,000 miles per year, until the odometer has 20,000 miles on it, then reduces his riding to less than 1,000 miles a year, so he doesn't have to spend so much time polishing the bike.

Wannabe A Biker: Buys a used bike and rode it once, scaring himself so badly he can't force himself to get on it for more than 10 or 15 minutes at a time. He still buys all the gear and talks like he rides a lot. Has a small electric motor set up in his garage to spin the speedometer cable from time to time.

The Owner: Buys a used bike and spends all his time making it look pretty. Claims to ride, but no one ever sees him on the road.

The Investor: The dealer delivered the new bike to his house on a trailor. The bike has 25 miles on it after 5 years. All those miles were put on it by other people. He doesn't ride.

regards,
Joe  

Keep in mind, riding is a solitary vice. It is a relationship between you, the bike, the wind and the road. There are no other people involved.

Many of those Harley and GoldWing riders are just that, riders. If you want to impress them, stop flapping your lips and demonstrate your skills on the bike doing extremely tight maneuvers at dead slow speeds or routinely spending 8 hours a day in the saddle. Anybody can buy patches that resemble 'colors'. They don't mean a thing if you're not part of a tightly knit brotherhood and if you were, you wouldn't care what any outsider thought about anything.

As Earl said to me at the 1986 Memorial Day Blowout, "Most of those people act like they think they are the first person to discover that riding a bike is fun." When you've been riding in the 'The Biker' catagory for 10 years, the puppy enthusiasm of new riders is merely mildly amusing. You stop listening to anything they say because they are getting carried away by their own enthusiasm and just talking sh1t.

It's all about the ride. People who are concerned about anything else are wannabes.

regards,
Joe  

Hey Joe, it's fun to read some of your stuff.  We can always depend on you to find a place and way to philosophize about some of the stuff that shows up here, some of which is pretty off-the-wall, to say the least.

As many will already know from previous contributions to this site, I came to the motorcycle riding scene pretty recently, and relatively late (so far) in life.  It was just a little dream or wishful thought I'd always had hidden away in the back of my head, that when one day my son said to me "Dad, if you don't hurry up and do it, you're going to be too damned old!" prompted me to go ahead and give it a try, so I did.

I have a friend who has owned about 4 Harley's over the last 12 years or so and I don't think he's ever put more than 10,000 kilometres (6200 miles) on any of them, and some of them never got wet except when he cleaned them.  We live about 250 miles apart and I haven't been able to persuade him to meet me anywhere to ride to a mutual destination, or even to ride back and forth between our respective cities.  I've just resigned myself to the fact that, great friend that he is, he is a Harley owner, not a Harley rider.  I may ride to his home and back, but I don't expect that he'll ever join me.

In fairness to him, I don't ride anywhere near the miles that you talk about either, Joe.  When I first took the steps to get my motorcycle certification, I took a little good-natured ribbing from acquaintances who did ride, some of them long-time and pretty seriously, about gonna pretend to be a biker.  The common perception was "yeah you're gonna get a licence and a bike and ride to the coffee shop once a week and call yourself a biker"... you get the picture.  And to some extent, I took those comments to heart and wanted to prove to myself that I could accomplish something more on a bike, at least once.  So I opted to challenge myself to a 2700 mile trip across the prairies last summer, accompanied on the return trip by my brother on his Harley.  On my return, when I related that to the aforementioned nay-sayers, the reaction was of some level of surprise, but clearly accepting and indicative of having earned some greater level of respect.  And from non-rider friends of ours, there were a number of expressions of admiration and congratulations for having taken on the challenge and passed the test and enjoyed doing it.  And, I suspect, secretly wished they could do it themselves.

I honestly don't know how many, if any, similar trips I'll make, but for that one time I enjoyed the solitude of the journey, and smiled inside as I soaked up the glances of motorists checking me and my bike out on the road, at motels, gas stations, and restaurants.  In the meantime, day rides and evening rides, just for the fun of it, are the status quo again.

I realize that what I have described will seem pretty inconsequential to many readers who ride 10's of thousands of miles a year, but we all fit someplace and for whatever personal reasons we have.

Happy-Hunter, I did not experience (and have not experienced) any of the attitudes you've described from other types of bikers.  I will admit though, that there are some riders whose attitude and mannerisms suggest that you're better off to just ignore them and give them their own space, because anything remotely resembling a confrontational attitude toward them will be more than matched in spades.  For the most part, everyone (rider and motorist alike) on the road, is curious as to your home, your destination, your trip so far, and your bike...lots to talk about and contribute to an enjoyable conversation.  And courtesy offered usually begets reciprocal courtesy... the "Do unto others" thing under any circumstances.

As for cliques of brand owners, I would guess it's as simple as "Birds of a feather flock together".  HOG members and Gold Wing riders will gravitate toward one another simply because of their respective ride preferences, as you are a Star rider and club member.  And we can't forget that the manufacturers are feeding this phenomenon by making accessories and apparel available to the public, and making a ton of money on it to boot.  So we're all being taken for a ride (tongue firmly in cheek), if we choose to get on board.

So enjoy your rides everybody, long, short, seldom or frequent as they may be.  But stay safe in the process.  Cheers.  Herb.

P.S.  Joe, you've logged in again since I started my note and I can only say "OUCH!", but I'm going to post mine "as is" anyway.  I can appreciate that your experience can leave you with a somewhat jaded attitude towards us relative newcomers, but a little compassionate, albeit condescending, empathy would be acceptable.

But you do make another interesting point about "colors", and maybe Happy-Hunter is a little too much in peoples faces with it and about it.  Personally, I don't belong to any sorts of formal organizations, charitable, fraternal, or otherwise.  Too independent I guess, and just not my style.  The only badge ("Motorcycle Ride for Dad") on my jacket is for participation in a charitable motorcycle ride here in Canada to raise funds for research into and education about prostate cancer.   I lost my Dad to prostate cancer and bone cancer in 1990, so this is close to me.  Early detection is critical to survival and he wasn't diagnosed until it was way too late.  So guys, get checked.  And ladies, get the guys you care about checked.  It could save their life!  But I digress.  The other crests and stuff don't interest me or particularly impress me.  H.  

I think you need to hang out with more mature motorcyclists.  Let the snobs be snobs and do your thing.  Part of being a mature motorcyclist is doing your own thing and not caring about what other people think.

The fact that you appear to care so much about what these other people think is part of what makes you look like a poser.  I am not saying you are a poser, I am just saying that giving a crap about what these guys think of you makes you stand out, and only makes the problem worse.  

Even before I bought a Wing, I ended up chatting with a number of GW riders. If you ask them a couple of questions, you can't get them to shut up about stories.

I've even hit that from a lot of HD riders (the ones that bought them to ride, not to impress). I've gotten the cold shoulder from the bar to bar crowd too.

Chattiest guy I ever ran into way Lloyd, who rides a '46 Velocete, and has for 60 years. He doesn't ride as far anymore, and I lost touch with him since the Biker Cafe closed in Bridgewater Ma. He never failed to have a good story about his rides.

I think it's just a matter of introductions. I don't wear "colors" from the bike manufacturer, or the groups I ride with, although my riding gear is loud.  

First off, Happy-Hunter, good thread!

Joe, I too appreciate reading your musings...and you're right, I love your observation that riding is a solitary vice.

Herba, we're kindred spirits...I started riding only about a year ago, late in life (early 50s...even had an article in the February magazine that begins with CW), and I too ride a Star (1100 Custom, and love it!).

Though I haven't felt the disdain of Harley riders that you describe, I have heard of it.

To augment Joe's descriptions of riders, I think there are a couple of other generalizations that can be made...BMW riders will generally wear Aerostitch riding suits (or some other almost equally protective garb) and have a general disdain for loud motorcycles (at least according to a BMW rider friend of mine, who also said Beemerriders don't like riding in formation but rather just kinda hanging out about a quarter-mile from each other. I won't have too many BMW friends with my baffleless Shogun Ripsaws that announce my arrival 5 blocks away...but hey, the bike came that way). I'm amazed at how silent Goldwings are and my impression is that most GW riders are pretty straighlaced and maybe even conservative (frbock, correct me if I'm wrong...I now you will anyway).

And Joe, I'm guilty of the new rider enthusiasm, though I hope I'm not talking sh!t, it's just a desire to share the new-found freedom of two wheels.

The only groups I ride with are the Patriot Guard Riders (when I can) and Warriors for God that my brother-in-law started. I find riding wonderful sanctuary for discussions with The Man Upstairs. I thank Him for keeping cagers from doing stupid things in front of me and for the one time I hit 12 of 13 lights green on the way to work one morning, including 11 in a row. Went the same way many other days and never came close to duplicating the feat, so it wasn't me or the guy who timed the lights...

I do occasionally wear a leather vest with patches, but they're meaningful to me, I think they look cool, and my "colors" (if you want to call them that) are a really graphic eagle with its wings spread, the American flag flying between the wings, stars encircling the eagle and flag, and orangish-red flames framing everything. I just think it looks cool and makes a patriotic statement (I am an Army veteran).

I wave to other riders because we do have something special going for us. I ride a cruiser and prefer cruisers but respect the stunters and crotch rocket guys and adventure tourers and others for their choices and what gives them their thrill, though I do say an extra prayer for stunters because they're the most likely to end up in crumpled heap on the road side.

But it does come down to being a rider vs. weekend riding vs. posers. I started riding in reaction to gas prices (halved or better my monthly petrol bill) and rode to work every day it wasn't raining or icy (coldest was 28 degrees, which is nothing to you, Herba, I'm sure, but I can't control the weather here, and too many Texans have hard enough time driving when it's dry much less wet). I haven't logged the miles that Joe describes above but I know my motivation and what's in my heart, and I'll enjoy my solitary vice (thanks, again, Joe).

Great thread. Look forward to others posts. Ride safe, watch out for cagers on cell phones, and thank The Man Upstairs for every safe ride.  

herba said...
>I honestly don't know how many, if any, similar trips I'll make, but for that one time I enjoyed the solitude of the journey...

There is a line in a song that talks about a peaceful easy feeling deep down in your soul. He was probably singing about a woman, but that's what I get from riding. It doesn't matter if I'm traveling 600 miles a day or just riding on the back roads, never getting any farther than one tank of gas away from home. The weather doesn't matter and I've even found it in traffic jams occasionally :-)

Ed told me I was zenning out and bought me a book called Zen & The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. I couldn't force myself to read it past the first 50 pages or so.

The only time I can't find that feeling is when I ride with a group. Riding in a group just turns the ride into work. I don't mind the socialising at the stops, although I'm not very good at it, but it ruins the ride itself to have to stay in place in a formation. If it's just a few riders and all we are doing is trying not to lose sight of each other, then it's not so bad, but I still prefer to ride alone.

regards,
Joe  

CruiserBruiser said...
>BMW riders will generally wear Aerostitch riding suits (or some other almost
>equally protective garb) and have a general disdain for loud motorcycles (at least
>according to a BMW rider friend of mine, who also said Beemerriders don't like
>riding in formation but rather just kinda hanging out about a quarter-mile from
>each other.

It sounds like I need to get my butt over to Tallahassee and test ride a BMW, when I get ready to trade off this Sabre :-)

regards,
Joe  

Here's a website that some of you might find informative.

http://www.rcvsmc.net/index.html

regards,
Joe  

Joe, you're starting to sound like a Beemerer! Hehehehehehe But I still like your posts. Just don't ever lose the desire for that solitary vice, regardless of the conveyance. If it's two wheels, it's good. If you try a BMW, I bet you're a GS 800 or 1000 guy. Those have gotten high marks by the motopress, for what that's worth.

I also like your all-too-common sense approach to dealing with creeping traffic...turn the bike off and walk it...who'da ever thunk of that?!?

Ride safe, watch out for cagers on cell phones (or putting on make-up or reading), and thank The Man Upstairs for every safe ride.  

Happy hunter. Good, you're happy!  I have a 2008 HD Sportster, my DH has a 2008 Honda VTX1300. I LOVE my bike. He LOVES his bike. Some groups are (and you hit the nail on the head) childish. It IS childish. My neighbor who has BIG crashed twice on her HD (either a softail or dyna-I've not looked that close) told me the other day that there is no need to lock my bike as no one would want to steal a Sportster. LOL   -The dyna's mechanically are not that different, and style is not that different, except a tank mounted speedometer. An extra gear, for low end, but not that much and they have plastic parts-except the Sportster-they are still ALL metal. She doesn't know that, and neither do her friends apparently. My "sweet zone" is 70mph-all I want where I live, and good enough for cross country. We occasionlly run into snobbery-but we act like we didn't notice and they give it up and get talking, or we just ignore them and move on. No need to waste valuable time on that type, there are too many good ones around. If they are THAT whoosy and fragile about their bikes, then who knows what trouble they can cause with their emotional lability.  So-yes, lets all just get along, like smart kids and grown-ups do. The rest can just go on by.  

Cruiser,
depends on the definition of straight laced.
I think on the whole, GW riders were given a sweet deal from Honda. A bike that performs, and doesn't wake the neighbors. I can ride several hundred miles, and still hear the stereo, and the local cows (as well as any trucks trying to make the turn in front of me). I can dust many years of a Lamborghini Diablo off the line. It also turns quicker, and has more lean angle than my Kawi 800.
I think a lot of the people who go to GWs and BMWs are people who aren't posing, they aren't trying to get noticed. They love to ride.  I think that's why GW and BMW end up with the highest average miles. Friend used to rack up 30k a year on his BMW R bike. He racked up tickets on his K bike.

Oh for the "loud pipes saves lives" crowd, I saw statistics on motorcycle accidents by bike type, and touring bikes were 1/3 as likely to be in an accident compared to all motorcycles, Sportbikes were much higher. Lot of GWs in the touring group. I have no idea (neither do they) as to whether it's rider or bike related. All I know is that the Cruiser category had about 2x the accidents of the touring rigs, and a lot more of them have loud pipes.  

frbock, in all honesty, I think GW and BMW riders are probably older, more successful (neither is cheap) and more mature, generally speaking, not out taking risks, and probably more experienced riders, so also more aware of the potential threats ahead. I would agree that GW and BMW riders are riders and not posers.

Loud pipe guys (even though I'm one and I hope at worst only semi fit into this group) are hotdogging it maybe a little more, and less experienced, and I would guess statistically more prone to "learning opportunities." I've been amazed at how quiet GWs are...was right behind one (I was walking down the street) and had to strain to hear it. While I've gotten positive feedback that my bike "sounds cool" from other riders, not sure how my neighbors feel about it. My father-in-law, whom I ride with a lot, uses the sound from my pipes for queues on what's ahead because he can hear me throttle down and know something's going on up ahead. And honestly, sometimes I wish my bike was a little quieter.

I think, also, speed kills. I'm good doing 70-80 mph, don't really need to go faster, usually, though I do enjoy that extra umph every now an then. There's certainly a rush that goes with it. But mostly, I just love the freedom of the open road and just cruising. Not necessarily in too big a hurry to get where I'm going because I like that cruise, and often look for the long way home.

I think touring bikes also have fewer accidents because they're being ridden more on the road and not in town and as commuters.

I think most sportbike guys are in their own little world. That high torque only begs to be pegged, and that's when trouble starts. Again, speed kills. Plus, too many decide that stunting should be done anywhere. I saw a guy near my house one day pop a wheelie, keep it for over a quarter-mile, was changing lanes and disappeared in the distance. Hope they're not fishing him out of a ditch one day.

Interesting fact, last year, more U.S. Marines were killed in motorcycle accidents (something like 26) stateside than were killed in combat in Iraq (something like 20). That statistic just floored me. I think most were on crotch rockets.

One that hit close to home, the Patriot Guard Riders group I ride with some months ago rode escort for a G.I.'s funeral, and one of his friends, on active duty, was killed in a motorcycle crash headed back to base after the funeral. Sad.

I think Trish8 nailed it, let's just get along, be big boys and girls, and ignore those ignorant few with too much testosterone or insufficient manhood and have to strut their stuff.

If you haven't already, read Catterson's Cat Tales in the September (maybe August) Motorcyclist for Adam Corolla's take on bikers...funny, indicting stuff, and he used to ride.

Again, Happy-Hunter, thanks for starting this thread. I love it! As always, ride safe, watch out for cagers on cell phones (or reading or putting on make-up or shaving), and always thank The Man Upstairs for every safe ride.