Legal opinion needed concerning Kids on motorcycles.

I just purchased a 2005 HD Sportster 883XL and my 11 year old daughter and I want to ride together. Now after fitting her and myself up in all the safety gear (helmet,gloves, jacket and pants)as well as a nice dual seat with a backrest for her, my ex-wife is threatening to take me to court to deny me the ability to put her on the bike at all.

1. Does she have any case law for this?
2. Would a judge even listen to this considering it is during my visitation?

I would love to hear form a lawyer who rides and find out where I stand.

Thanks for any input.

neatgreek  

Great question. I looked in my motorcycle driving booklet and it says nothing about an age limation on riding two up.  

I would be telling the Ex-wife to take a flying leap and that I would see her in court if she really chose to take it that far. Just one visit to her lawyer and she will quickly find out that she really has nothing but a loud "bark".

It would take an INSANELY liberal judge to even find a remote reason to hold judgement in her favor....so, maybe if you're in California she may have a shot, but even then I just don't see it.  

Well, since I don't accept money for this kinda thing, I'll give you my personal opinion, rather than a legal opinion...

If her lawyer can confuse the issue enough with irrelevancies, any decision is possible. Then again, if you have a poor riding record, or a very short one, some of the stuff he says to the judge may not be that irrelevant after all.

regards,
Joe
--
It matters not, how skilled you are at the task nor how dedicated to the goal.
If you're not having fun, you are doing it WRONG.  

I'm not an attorney either but here's my uneducated opinion...

If it does go to court and there is no case law on it, then he will decide for what he feels is in the  welfare of the child.  So...if riding on the back of a bike puts a kid at risk, then he will be tempted to add stipulations to the visitation.  

Going to court is expensive and stressful.  It ultimately becomes a gamble if you go all the way through a legal proceeding.  My suggestion is to try to find some way to convince your ex that you are expanding your daughter's interests and that it will be very safe.  

I live in California and I used to Take My Step-Son on the Back of My Virago all the Time.  I taught Him How to Hold on and Made sure that every Possible Safety Measure was Taken... Helmet, Boots, Good Jeans, Jacket & Gloves.  He was too small to get his arms around Me so I made him Hold on to the back of My Belt.  I also talked to Him a Lot while We were Riding. He would have ridden with Me all Day long, every Day if He could because He Loved it.  When the 3 of Us went somewhere together He wanted to Ride but, I had to tell Him that all 3 of Us wouldn't fit on the Bike.  There are No Vehicle Codes That I am Aware of in California that Prohibit Children Under the age of 18 from being a Passenger and at 11 Years of Age Your Daughter is most likely large enough to Hold on to You just fine.  You sound very Careful to Me so, Tell Your Ex to take a Long Walk off of a Short Pier... with Lead Weights.
You can go to the California DMV site and Look Up the Vehicle Codes for Motorcycles.  That can be done in Every State in the U.S. and it is FREE.  Also Check with: http://www.bike911.com for Free Legal Advice.  

Dear neatgreek911,  Here is the Passenger Law Governing Motorcycles in California.

Passengers: Equipment and Usage

27800.  It is unlawful for a driver of a motorcycle or a motorized bicycle to carry any other person thereon, EXCEPT on a seat securely fastened to the machine at the rear of the driver and provided with footrests, or in a sidecar attached to a motorcycle and designed for the purpose of carrying a passenger. Every passenger on a motorcycle or a motorized bicycle shall keep his feet on the footrests while such vehicle is in motion.
Amended Ch. 421, Stats. 1978. Effective January 1, 1979.

I Hope This Helps You to Shut Her Mouth and Allow You and Your Daughter to Really Enjoy some Weekend Rides together.  Yes, I have an Ex too and They try Everything to be Rotten.

It might Help You to get a Lawyer to Provide Your Ex with Proof of the Law in Writing, which Will Prevent ANY Lawsuits by Her trying to say You are a bad Father for the Bike Rides.  It has to be worth the Money for a Short Letter from Your Lawyer, Compared to Court Costs if You Ignore Her Threats and end up in Court.  Best of Luck My Friend & keep the Shiny Side Up!  

Here's another non-legal opinion on the matter:
You have an attorney who practices in the state, and in the courts in question.
Ask him/her.
You will get a more accurate answer from him/her in a matter of seconds than we would ever get to. We might get to the common sense answer, but, the law holds common sense in dim view this past several years.  

Neatgreek,

The issue you are looking at is one of family law, not the vehicle code. Although some states do limit the age of passengers, it is easy to find out from the DMV of your state if that is the case. However, just because something is not unlawful does not make it acceptable child rearing practices.

Yes, a judge could listen to this issue. It would be considered a matter of safety and the wellbeing of a child. To some people, a child riding on a motorcycle is in the same category as taking the child skydiving or to the local strip club.    

What you and your wife have is a difference of opinion on what is appropriate for your child. Men are traditionally greater risk takers than women--women are normally more protective of their children. There are women who think it too dangerous for their children to play little league baseball, for example. These issues are often matters of disagreement even for married couples.

There is no right or wrong.You could both hire an attorney and fight it out in family court. There are many factors that a judge would take into consideration in making his or her decision. The only winner would be the lawyers who make more money by prolonging the fight.

As much as I like riding, if I were having child custody issues with an ex, I'm not sure this would the issue I'd choose to battle over.  

did your ex ever ride? just curious.  
if the house is a rocking don't bother knocking, just come on in...SRV

Coming from a women's perspective, I personally would not take a child as a passenger on a Motorcycle.  It doesn't matter how "safe" you ride, and what safety precautions you take with gear, etc. ... motorcycle riding is risky for anyone and everyone that rides.  The accident doesn't have to be your fault in order for something tragic to happen.

If something happened to your daughter, because you chose to take that risk, you would never forgive yourself.

So then the flip side of that coin ... do you keep your daughter completely isolated in a plastic bubble in order to keep her "safe"?  No, of course not.  Life should be an adventure and should be enjoyed.  But there are certain risks that can be avoided.  

I started riding back when I was a teen. But when I gave birth to my daughter I stopped riding.  I was a single parent.  If something happened to me as a result of riding, she would be orphaned.  Additionally, how do you ride with an infant strapped to your back.  I didn't start riding again until just a few months ago.  My daughter is 25 years old now and is moved out and living on her own.  If something happened to me now the only ones that will "miss" me are my pets and my creditors.

It is definately your call as to whether or not this battle is worth the fight, but as one person has already mentioned ... you may want to reserve your battles for something that will really make a difference.

Just my opinion.

SoCalGirl  

SoCalGal is right on the issue of risk. But, on the flip side, I've almost been killed walking across the parking lot at the local Stop and Shop.  There are risks in everything we do.
A friend of mine bought a biker buddy device. It's a belt that you wear, with handlebars for the youngster to hold on to. It also includes a harness for them, and a connector.
He had his son fall asleep more than once on the bike. Without the buddy, he might have fallen off and been injured.
You need to be able to show the safety gear you intend to ride with (don't need to buy, just have the info available).

If you want to take your child on the bike, it doesn't matter what the law says. You have to be like Caesar's wife "totally above reproach".
If you demonstrate a total systemic approach to safety on all levels, the judge will listen. Still not a guarantee, but, it's the bar you need to reach (pun not intended).  

You may want to shy away from this legal battle.  The guy who talked about family law is right.  The only one that will make money on this is the attorneys.  If you can't win before you go to court, then your gambling.  Even if you win, you can lose in the long run by more personal problems and the constant threat/paranoia of pay back.  It's ugly and expensive.

Win this before you go to court.

Convince your wife that it's OK to ride with your daughter.  It really has to be safe though.  Riding on 410 in southern CA won't cut it.  Start with just a few rides in a parking lot if you have to.

If you still feel like going to court though.  Take up a collection from everyone egging you on.  10K should get you into court in a month or two.  

I would  miss you SoCalGal.               Jim  

I'm no lawyer but in my opinion what should be carefully considered when a divorced spouse decides to take a minor child on a motorcycle is this............who's life will be impacted more in the unfortunate event the child is permanently injured in a motorcycle accident?  Surely the custodial parent will carry more of the burden, struggling to help their child through emotional and physical pain as a result of their injuries, as well as changing their day to day life to adapt to their child's disability--including making a home handicapped accessible, purchasing a vehicle with a wheelchair lift, and incorporating therapy or rehabilitative services into their routine. If the custodial parent will be the one handling the day to day life of a physically and/or mentally impaired child, how can the non-custodial parent justify taking the child for a motorcycle ride simply because it's fun, especially if they know their ex-spouse is against it?  One could argue that a child could also be injured in an accident while riding in a car with a non-custodial parent, but the difference is that riding in an automobile is a necessity in today's society, while riding on a motorcyle is not, and the risk of injury on a motorcycle is far greater.