Vstar 1100 Vs Sabre 1100 which idles slower like harley..?

Hello everyone    ,

They say single crank pin gives you the slow idle which the hondas do, Yamahas usually idle a bit faster..I wonder if thats true.,am looking to buy a Vstar 1100 or Honda 1100 or 1300 and my focus is mainly on how close it beats like harley.
your thoughts and view appreciated!!  

Trying to idle many of these down to "sound like a HD" can starve your valves of oil.  HD spends a lot of money to maintain the HD sound.  My thought?  If you want a bike that sounds like a HD....buy the HD.  You can spend a lot of $$$ trying to get the sound you seem to want, but never achieve it.  

They say single crank pin gives you the slow idle...

As usual, 'they' are wrong. If the idle is low enough, the single crank pin will give you a 'lope', due to the difference in how far the crank has to turn between cylinders firing. The engine lopes because one piston is moving slower at firing than the other piston, when it fires.

How low you can set the idle is mostly due to chamber design and ignition timing range. The farther you can retard the timing, the lower the idle rpm can be and still have both cylinders burn reliably.

The part of the problem that is chamber design, determines at what point you will have excessive carbon buildup while idling. You can reduce carbon buildup by leaning out your idle mixture, but you'll find that when the engine is 'lope'ing, the slower cylinder will be much more prone to carboning up than the other.

Additionally, achieving the lowest idle is engine temperature sensitive. You don't dare let it try to idle before the oil comes up to full hot, because the cold oil will slow the idle down even more, causing your carefully balanced setup to operate in carbon buildup mode.

The really slow idling Harleys were the old side valve & magneto bikes. The magneto had the ability to retard the timing much farther than today's ignition systems and the exhaust valves were much easier to remove and clean periodically. Everybody who rode those bikes carried extra spark plugs, so they could swap them whenever they let the bike idle too long and the spark plugs fouled. Even in the days of the shovelheads, many riders tried to achieve the low idle and had to carry spare spark plugs at all times. This is why Harley riders have the habit of blipping the throttle. They used to be testing the carbon buildup and plug fouling. Today, most of them do it without knowing why, just to make people think they have been riding harleys for a long time.

I haven't owned a Yamaha V-twin, but if you slow down a Kawasaki V-twin, enough for the engine to 'lope', you'll be fighting carbon timing knock and fouled plugs constantly. If your bike is FI, you can't even lean out the idle mixture.

Finally, slowing down the idle rpm will seriously impare the off idle performance. You'll have to raise the engine rpm significantly, before trying to ease the clutch. Personally, I like to start easing the clutch while idling, then feather the throttle to accelerate, but that requires good off idle performance. It's a quieter way to start off and I find it easier to keep the friction point under control. As an old Harley rider, I haven't been tempted to slow down my Sabre's idle at all. In fact, I've got it turned up slightly, so it idles about 1000 rpm cold, instead of 1000 rpm hot :-)

regards,
Joe  

Just as an aside, I understand wanting to look cool at the stoplight.
Engines only function well over a limited range of RPMs. If you've got the 500 RPM lope, to be able to keep it going, you need a set of cams that will be fairly mild as the RPMS go up.

If you need proof, listen to any "tweaked" Harley. The owners are trying to keep factory idle, which the cams intake and exhaust can't support. So, they're always blapping the throttle to keep the bike alive.
They may do well on the dyno, but, I wouldn't want to ride one. They generally have peaky hp and torque curves, so they're a handful on the road.  

To add to the orig question, without harming the engine performance or carbon built up which of the 2 metric would come reasonably close to HD. I have heard few Honda vtx 1300 and Yamaha and my opinion is Yammys hav a higher idle than hondas..check this you tube link..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfJQ42q6IsI  

Well, the Sabre 1100, you mentioned in your thread topic, will not even try to sound like a Harley, no matter how slow you get it to idle. Unlike most other V-twins, it has two offset crank pins instead of a single crankpin.

regards,
Joe  

sloowpoke, yes and if you see the vtx 1300 its single crank pin & i guess it would sound close..right !!