I've already put down the deposit at my local motorcycle dealer for my rebel, since they are in such high demand. My deposit can go towards any bike, so I want to make sure this is the one for me.


I recently went to a scooter store with my sister. They tried to talk me out of getting a motorcycle but of course, I must hear from both sides of the spectrum.

-"Motorcycle engines put off a lot of heat." This is probably true, but is it unbearably hot? Is the rebel any different from other bikes? How about the vstar?

-"Motorcycles are very heavy". Being a female who is just short of five feet and weighing 90 lbs, I'm really worried about this. Are either of these bikes top heavy? Will it be relatively easy for me to scoot along at a red light, etc? I'll be using my bike to ride to class at my college.. there are a lot of turns and stops on the way. I'm planning on taking the safety course before I commit to buying my bike. Will this greatly minimize the risk of dropping my bike? I live in Atlanta where traffic is very unpredictable. I want to be able to move my bike along in traffic without tiring myself out or god forbid, dropping it.

-I hear that motorcycles are safer than scooters because they have gyroscopic force (bike naturally keeps itself up while moving.) Does this really make a difference? I couldn't find anything about it online.

-Is there any way to help prevent your bike from being stolen? I live in an apartment right now... there are a lot of shady folks around, as is the case with most apartment complexes. It would probably be pretty easy for two guys to pick up a 400 lb bike. Any thief deterrents?

Also, not as important but.. since i'm on a waiting list, do I just get to pick from whatever color bike is shipped to the dealer, or can i hold off for a red one if the first shipment is all black? I've never done this kind of thing before so i don't know how waiting lists work. If I don't get my color, how much does a good paint job for a bike run? I want green flames/stripes/whatever on a black background. Scooter dude told me around $1200.. is that a good estimate?

Finaly, is there any significant difference between the Rebel or V-star? The V-star seat is one inch higher than the Rebel (27 in). My inseam is about 27.5"... will I be able to touch the ground comfortably in the V- star? When you're my size, that one little inch matters! haha. The V-star also seems a bit lighter.. I'm leaning towards the Rebel mostly because a Honda seems like it would be more reliable but maybe that only applies to their cars. Any opinions? Other suggestions for my first bike? I have my heart set on the cruisers.. Classic and hot!

Can't wait to get my bike, whatever it may be. =D! Any additional info would help out greatly.  

You have to get what is comfortable to you. Look at the Bikes in your price range and go sit on everyone. Take your time, make sure the controls lay out good for you ,good body position and you can handle the bike's weight easily.
 You might also want to look at the Honda VTX ,Kawasaki vulcan 500 and the Suzuki S40.  

ohviewfinder said...
>-"Motorcycle engines put off a lot of heat." This is probably true, but is it unbearably hot?

I wouldn't say so, but then I started riding bikes when all bikes were air cooled. Chances are if a rider told you that, it was someone who has never ridden an air cooled bike. Air cooled bikes do not generate any more heat than water cooled bikes do. It's just that the heat is dissipated directly off the heads instead of being transferred to a radiator first. Actually, the larger the engine is, the more heat it produces. Tha main advantage of water cooled engines is they don't over heat while setting stopped in traffic. That radiator fan keeps the air moving to cool the bike, but I really don't see any reason why a fan can't be installed on an air cooled bike that gets used in heavy traffic, too.

ohviewfinder then went on to say...
>-"Motorcycles are very heavy". Being a female who is just short of five feet and weighing 90 lbs, I'm really worried about this. Will it be relatively easy for me to scoot along at a red light, etc?

They are, but not nearly as heavy as a car. Just like a car, the wheels carry the weight. Unless you have some physical infirmity that makes it hard to hold up your hands and arms, the bike's weight is pretty much irrelevant once you learn how to ride. The engine does all the work of moving the bike. All you do is operate the controls, while continuously monitoring your sense of balance.

ohviewfinder then went on to say...
>I'm planning on taking the safety course before I commit to buying my bike. Will this greatly minimize the risk of dropping my bike? I live in Atlanta where traffic is very unpredictable.

A riders course is definitely the way to start. Hopefully, you already are skilled at operating a bicycle, which requires you to balance on two wheels while doing other things. When I first went through the instructors course for the MSF, they told us that people who don't already know how to ride a bicycle will not be able to learn to ride a motorcycle adequately simply from taking a basic rider's course. The reason I mention this is because you write like someone who has no experience on two wheels at all, not even as a passenger or a bicycle rider. If I am wrong about that, I apologise.

People drop their bike because they allow their focus to wander, either absentmindedly forgetting to put down the sidestand, or ignoring what their sense of balance is telling them for a moment. People who focus well, disregarding distractions, don't drop their bike after learning how to ride. Of course, we also tend to not be socially acceptable, because we don't bother listening to people who talk to us while we're doing something :-)

Traffic is not unpredictable. Traffic contains patterns, constantly changing patterns. If you can't recognise those patterns and see them changing around you, you don't belong in traffic even driving a car.

ohviewfinder then went on to say...
>I want to be able to move my bike along in traffic without tiring myself out...

That's not a problem, physically. Riding a motorcycle is roughly akin to being a couch potato. Riding in traffic is like sitting up on the couch to watch TV, instead of laying down. Mentally is a whole different situation. Learning to ride in heavy traffic can be extremely stressful and if you let that stress get you tense, so you're working aginst your own muscles, then you'll have problems.

ohviewfinder then went on to say...
>-I hear that motorcycles are safer than scooters because they have gyroscopic force (bike naturally keeps itself up while moving.) Does this really make a difference? I couldn't find anything about it online.

heh heh  People who talk about the gyroscopic forces on a motorcycle, are usually trying to impress someone. Generally, you hear this as part of the discussion of countersteering. It's all a line of crap :-)

The wheels on a motorcycle are turning at about 750 rpm at 60 mph. The rotary parts of the engine and transmission may be turning at up to 10,000 rpm. They're claiming that the 50 pounds of rotary mass in the wheels will have more effect on bike stability and steering than the hundred pounds (several hundred pounds in the larger bikes) of much faster rotating mass inside the engine casings. Revving the engine up can stabilise the motorcycle far more than the wheels do, at any speed, and revving the engine up will not stop you from falling down if you do something dumb.

Countersteering works just fine, even when the wheels are only turning at 20 rpm :-)

Scooters with short wheelbases are far less stable than motorcycles. There are scooters out there that are much longer and more powerful than a 250cc Rebel. They go faster and are more stable than the Rebel.

ohviewfinder then went on to say...
>-Is there any way to help prevent your bike from being stolen?

Help...yes, prevent...no

Four strong guys with a pickup truck or trailor can move even an 800 pound bike half a mile, in 60 seconds. Locks, chains, cables, rotor & wheel clamps... All these things do is slow down people who are not prepared for them. Solitary impulsive thieves are easily discouraged by them, but if someone decides he really wants your bike, it's gone. That pretty much applies to most anything you will ever own in your life.

ohviewfinder then went on to say...
>...do I just get to pick from whatever color bike is shipped to the dealer, or can i hold off for a red one if the first shipment is all black?

That's entirely between you and the dealer. What did you and he agree to?

ohviewfinder then went on to say...
.If I don't get my color, how much does a good paint job for a bike run? I want green flames/stripes/whatever on a black background. Scooter dude told me around $1200.. is that a good estimate?

You're talking about a custom paint job. $1,200 is fairly cheap for that, from anyone who does good work. Stripes are easy and can be done for less, but flames done right are not. Flames require layers of airbrush work and an artist that is experienced at them. I've seen people pay 20 times that for a custom paint job.

ohviewfinder then went on to say...
>Finaly, is there any significant difference between the Rebel or V-star? The V-star seat is one inch higher than the Rebel (27 in). My inseam is about 27.5"... will I be able to touch the ground comfortably in the V- star? When you're my size, that one little inch matters! haha.

I've never bother to look closely at the rebel or the V-Star line, so I can't say anything there. On the other hand, your inseam is half an inch longer than mine and I don't concern myself as long as the seat height doesn't exceed 30 inches. That's a matter of experience and personal preference, though. I rarely bother to put both feet on the ground. Usually I only take my shifter foot off the peg when I come to a stop. The brake foot stays on the peg, unless I'm going to be doing a sharp right turn from a standing start or I'm stopping on a slope that falls away to the left.

finally, ohviewfinder said...
>I'm leaning towards the Rebel mostly because a Honda seems like it would be more reliable...

While that is generally true with motorcycles, it really only applies to the larger street bikes. Lighter flimsier parts are used in smaller bikes and no matter who makes it, a small bike will require more routine maintenance.

That said, if both small bikes are roughly the same size and being offered by the same dealer, if there's a major difference in price for a new bike, I'd avoid the cheap one. Small bikes already have enough requirements for maintenance, without adding early repairs to replace cheaply made parts that have failed. Even if the repairs are made under the warranty, nobody likes to be waiting 3 weeks for the shop to get in parts from Korea or China so they can fix the bike and get it back to you. Nobody makes a profit from warranty repairs, so the parts are shipped by surface carrier and the shop works on other bikes first.

regards,
Joe  

ohviewfinder,
It looks like sloowpoke has answered most of your questions but I am going to add just a little.
You have looked at seat height which is good, but also look at seat width as a wider seat will have some effect on how comfortably you can reach the ground.
Second, see how you feel after you finish the MSF course. If you really enjoy riding you may be looking for something bigger than the Rebel fairly soon.
Also print off and compare spec sheets for the bikes you are looking at. Will you need a larger fuel capacity? A longer bike will ride a little smoother. Check the final drive and determine if having a chain, belt or shaft would work best for you.
As it has been said, look at and sit on as many as you can and pick what YOU like best.
Good luck, let us know how it goes.
gomez  

I too am a nubie, taking the "Riders Edge" class it two weeks.  Doing some research I found this comparision on this very site. http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/roadtests/250cc_cruiser_comparison/index.html  

wow thanks for all the helpful info. If I have the deposit on the bike, do you think the dealership would consider holding it for me until I complete my MSG course? That will be almost a month after the new '09s start coming in. I just don't want to buy anything until I know I can ride it.


You brought up a lot of good points but I'm on my iPhone which is annoying to type on. I will say however, that I can ride a bicycle. I talked my boyfriend into starting this whole motorcycle thing with me. Were both pretty anxious about the course.I wanted to ride my bicycle more and practice making sharp turns and stuff with it so I could be more used to balancing... I just never told him this incase the two had no relevance whatsoever. So that's good to know!! And that's awesome I know that I don't need a really long inseam to ride comfortably.

Also, when I mean traffic being unpredictable, I meant accidents blocking major highways and stopping everything. I didn't mean that the drivers are bad. Atlanta has the worst traffic and commute in the country though. The scooter sales rep told me there have been days where he's had to "walk" his scooter to work because the roads are so jammed. That's what I meant when I asked about tiring myself out... I wanted to know if it was hard to push/to really slow and "walk" my bike. But I guess I count just do stop and go riding to sparey legs the work.

I'll try to get back and write more on my computer when I think of more stuff. I'll keep you posted on my progress!!    

ohviewfinder said...
The scooter sales rep told me there have been days where he's had to "walk" his scooter to work because the roads are so jammed. That's what I meant when I asked about tiring myself out... I wanted to know if it was hard to push/to really slow and "walk" my bike.

Heh, I've brought this subject up on other boards. Personally, I find it no problem to walk a 1,000 pound bike for ten miles. I've done it, when I didn't feel like working on it right where it quit on me :-)

When I'm on a trip, with the bike heavily loaded, I take a break when I stop for gas. I routinely walk the bike from the parking spot to the gas pump after my break, or routinely walk it from the pump to a parking spot before my break. I don't bother to take off my heavy riding gear first, even in the August heat. It really is easy, unless you make it hard, but most people struggle to move the bike with the engine off.

Most recently, I bought a new Vulcan 800 that came with intermittent fuel and electrical problems. When I commented on the VROC board that I was getting tired of pushing that new bike around when it quit running, most people were shocked that I would even consider trying to do that. I didn't think anything of pushing that 500 pound bike a few miles up and down the hills out in the country, but many people find it hard to even push their bike out of the garage. Many times, I've pointed out to people that they were going about it wrong and even demonstrated that a 4,000 pound truck is easily moved if you do it right. It's all a matter of applied leverage and actually requires very little strength. If a retired, fat old man can do it without effort, anyone can do it :-)

The bike supports it's own weight and rolls easily. If you can't easily move it around at a walk, something is wrong with either your technique or the bike's drive train. To get the bike moving, you push it, but once it's moving, you just lean your weight against it in a forward direction and let it support you while your directed weight keeps it rolling forward. That's on pavement. Off the pavement, no bike will roll easily. If you have to push it, keep it on the pavement on the very left edge of the pavement, between you and the oncoming traffic. If your feet are off the pavement while the tires are on it, the bike should be easy to keep moving as long as you don't try to hurry it along.

Walking on the left side of the bike, with the sidestand up and the footpeg bungied up out of the way, try keeping your left hand on the left handgrip, to steer the bike, and your right hand on the center of the handlebars, leaning forward just a little bit against the center of the handlebars. If you lean too hard, you'll be working harder to keep up with the bike. If you lean too little, you'll end up pushing the bike. It only takes a couple minutes to find the right amount of body lean to minimise your effort.

I can't remember even one time in 40 years of street riding, when the traffic was moving slowly enough to shut the engine off and walk alongside the bike, instead of riding it. I just went through Atlanta and while traffic came to a dead stop several times, it never moved that slowly, when it was moving. I think your sales rep was exagerating, or was working his way forward while everyone else was stopped.

regards,
Joe  

my wife has a vstar 250 and loves it but is ready to upgrade  

Don't worry about the heat; modern bikes dissapate it fairly well.  Yes, a scooter will be cooler.  A bicycle would be coller than a scooter.  99% of the time you won't notice the heat.

I too was worried about the weight of a bike, but really, it just is not that often it makes a difference.  And in general heavy bikes are more stabile, giving a better ride.  I can bring my V-Star 250 off the kick stand just by shifting my weight wihout touching the handlebars, and I'm not that big or strong.  My wife and daughter (15) both feel comfortable with the weight.

Don't let anyone talk you into the larger bikes until AFTER you've takenthe class; it will be on a rebel or v-star or suzuki gs250 most likely, and you'll get an idea if you think you are going to want comething bigger.   But even if you do, the small displacement bikes are flying out the doors,and you will probably be able to recoup most of your investment if you decide to move up later.

Like I mentioned, I've got a V-Star 250, a 2008.  I used to have an '86 Rebel, but it was a 450.  My borther in law has a Rebel 250,a '99 I think.  They are both good bikes.  The Rebel is running a couple of hundred cheaper, and despite others comments on cheap equally high maintenance has a reputation for being indestructible (well, they take a lot of abuse).

The choice for you ?  Whichever one feels best when you sit on it; the hand and foot controls feel most comfortable, etc.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.  Enjoy!  

Im sure you have already made your bike purchase; however I will give my opinion as a fellow female rider.   First of all it seems that dealers want to sell all female riders Rebel 250's as soon as they walk in the door guess they dont feel a woman can handle a better bike?  Your bike should match your riding ability and experience and of course match the type of riding you indend on doing.  If you are just going to use the bike for local transportation on back streets with speed limits of under 50mph then a 250 would be perfect.  If you are planning to travel or hit the freeways with speed limits of 65 and higher then a Rebel is not the bike you want because it would be a HAZZARD!

My friend is your size and height and started riding 5 years ago but her first bike was the V-star 650 which was a perfect bike for her to grow with and she was very comfortable with it for 2 years then as her skills grew she found that a bigger bike (cc's) was necessary for the travel she wanted to do on the bike.  Also remember ...dont let the CC's of a bike scare you (650, 750, 1100, 1200, 1600)because most cars are registared to go 120 but you dont have to go that fast; however if you need to get out of the way quick you have the ability to do so.    My example to female riders is ... If you are at a stop light and looking in your rear view mirror and see a woman coming up behind you at a fast speed, talking on the cell phone, fighting with her kids in the back seat not looking to stop anytime soon....do you think you can get out of the way with a 250cc bike or a 1100 bike before getting rear ended ?   Please dont under buy your motorcycle because you will regret it and it wont be easy to get your money back out of the haste decison to buy base on a male salesman who just wants to move inventory and not have your best interest in mind.

Most bikes can be adjusted to fit you at a reasonable cost and most bikes have the weight evenly distributed.
Think outside of the today box especially if you are making a long term purchase because you will tire of the wimpy bike before your payments end.

I started with a Honda Ace 750 classic, went to a Honda Aero 1100 and now have a Yamaha Road Star 1600 and at this point I can ride just about any bike which happens with time and experience.  Just make sure your feet can touch the ground flat that is the most important thing with riding in the event you are ever off the edge of the road and have to balance the bike with your feet.

Lastly there are two kinds of bikers .....Those who have been down and those who are waiting to go!

Anita ( www.friendsofstars.ning.com)  

Slowpoke,
I had an 800 Kawi that occasionally refused to start, crank or anything. Drove the mechanic nuts for a while (me too). Then it got a little more reliable, and he traced it to a bad relay in the junction box. It's all integral, so, they put a new box in. Fortunately, it was less than $100, and the problem went away for the next 5 years.
The mechanic found that when it happened, tapping the junction box was enough to get the relay to flip.

Muchlove, there's only one kind of rider, I've been down once, but, I don't think I got any kind of dispensation ;-)
but, back to the topic at hand...
The smaller bikes are more forgiving when you are starting out. My wife started on a Suzuki Savage (650cc thumper, light - 20 lbs more than the Rebel, low center of gravity). I'm  6'0" 230, and I had it up to about 75mph and it wasn't out of breath. I wouldn't hold it there all day, the vibration thru the hands will get to you.  

There is a misconception about the smaller displacement street bikes. Contrary to popular belief, they will accelerate very strongly from a standing start. A 20 hp 250cc engine has plenty of power to get you out of the way, when you're waiting at a stoplight. The difference in acceleration between a 250cc bike and a 650cc bike is not really significant until you get above second gear. However, the gearing on the smaller bike will be lower, so that strong acceleration will be for a narrower range of speeds. As long as you are talking about speeds of less than about 40 mph, the smaller bikes will get you out of trouble as quickly as the bigger bikes will, but the larger displacement bikes will continue to accelerate strongly up to 60 mph or even more, in second gear. It's all in the transmission gearing and how you use it.

On the interstate, the 250's have the power to get you up to 75mph, but you won't have near the acceleration at 50 mph as you would get from a larger displacement bike and acceleration at 70mph is weak.

regards,
Joe  

I too am a newbie and female. However, I am 5'7" and a bit more than 90lbs.    I have a yamaha xv250 (virago). It is similar to the Rebel. I have no problems with the heat as long as I wear my boots. Also have no problem pushing it around. Plenty of power for a new rider.

I have found lots of great advice here. Hopefully all these great people wont get tired of us newbies asking questions.  

Lots of folks are telling you sit on them and find the bike that feels right. And that's the best advise your going to get. YOU decide what bike you should buy. As for the Rebel, most people will tell you your going to get tired of it, it to tiny and stuff like that, some of us like that little guy. I recently bought my 2nd one. The first one I bought in the early 90s and everyone told me bigger is better so I got bigger but for me I missed the little Rebel in all it's simple qualities. I commute on it, I take easy back road tours on it. My point is, for a lot of us, well me anyway it's plenty of bike  

Most everyone has made very good arguments already, but 2 points that i failed to see and know helped me in my early days of riding
1. when you go to the dealer and "sit" on the bike have someone hold the forks so that you can feel it with your feet on the pegs riding posture is important no matter how far you ride there is quite a diffeence between the feel of it with your feet on the floor and your feet on the pegs.
2. on the subject of more is better, keep in mind that it is a relatively new concept for an 1100cc bike to not be considered large.
Hope some of this helps
ride safe