Everyone's an expert...  but when you are a new rider everyone else really does possess more knowledge than I ***  Here's my question, as a 5' 2" female rider, enrolled in Beginner Motorcycle Course at the local college and safety conscious, is a HD 883 too big a bike for me?

One camp say hell yes, go for a 250 Rebel, Ninja or Buell Blast.  The 883 has too much power and weighs too much.

The other camp says, with the right training, you can pick up the bike if you drop it.  It is more stable on the road, the pick up is better and will give you better performance when you need it.  A 250 is a glorified moped and lacks safe power...  The HD 883r is a bike made for chicks...  if you get a 250 you'll just regret it later.

I can see both sides.    

used to be a sporty was the worse bike for a newbie, being very top heavy. but with the low models you should be ok. only reservation i would have is buying a new bike in case you drop it, everybody does.  

Of course you get conflicting advice, anything that involves personal preferences will always be that way. That said, here's my biased opinions on the points you raised :-)

Shellbird said...
>as a 5' 2" female rider, enrolled in Beginner Motorcycle Course at the local college and safety conscious, is a HD 883 too big a bike for me?


Only if you have some physical infirmity or deformity that requires either an extremely low seat height or an extremely light bike. As long as you can get the balls of both feet to the ground at the same time while on the bike, you don't even need to learn any special techniques to control the bike. If you can only get your tiptoes to the ground or worse, only one foot at a time can touch down, then you'd need to plan your stops more carefully than other riders do. Riding the bike, you control it through throttle, clutch, brakes and steering. The weight of the bike and its size are pretty much irrelevant once you get used to it.

Shellbird then went on to say...
>One camp say hell yes, go for a 250 Rebel, Ninja or Buell Blast.  The 883 has too much power and weighs too much.


Power... If I remember correctly, from back in the mid 90's, the 883 puts about a maximum of 40 hp to the rear wheel. Considering that it takes about 15 hp to overcome the wind resistance at 65 mph, that really isn't a lot. The 250's will run around 20 hp max and they need to be operating up in the top 30% of their rpm range to produce that much power. That generally means they will just barely be able to run at that speed in high gear, so if you ever take one onto the interstate, you can't use high gear because it doesn't have the power to accelerate you out of trouble at highway speeds. When you have the bike in high gear, the gearing is designed to reduce rpm enough to limit vibration, but it also reduces available power to about half. I wouldn't recommend anything less than about 500cc, even for local riding. The 883 is about the top end of the "small bikes that are still big enough for the interstate" catagory. As I said above, the weight of the bike is pretty much irrelevant.

Shellbird then went on to say...
>The other camp says, with the right training, you can pick up the bike if you drop it.

That is absolutely correct. As an MSF certified motorcycle instructor, after teaching the proper technique for picking up a bike, I would routinely select the smallest gal in the class and have her demonstrate the proper technique by having her pick up my 900 pound Harley or GoldWing.

Shellbird then went on to say...
>...if you get a 250 you'll just regret it later.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. If you decide you don't like riding after all, the 250 means you won't be out as much money. Then again, such an underpowered bike may be a large part of deciding you don't like riding, too :-)

It's all about the ride. If you don't enjoy riding down the open road for hours on end, you'll spend as little time as possible on the bike and you'll never be comfortable in traffic on it. If you start out on a bike too small to handle traffic or the open road, then you won't have a chance to enjoy the ride in the first place. To me, the best rides of all are night rides through the countryside, but it takes time and experience to be comfortable riding along in the dark, the kind of experience you won't be able to get on a small bike.

regards,
Joe  

Joe, thank you so much for taking the time to write such an excellent arguement.  I was also told that a light bike can get sucked under a truck much easier too. Is that true?

I bought the 883, saw it, had to have it, and if I have to grow into it with training wheeles so be it, but I will ride it someday.  That orange and black piece of art is calling my name and the funny part is  I haven't really ever thought about riding until I sat on that bike and fell in love!  I even had butterflies in my stomach like a first date!  A guilty pleasure I guess.  I can't wait to hit the open road and know I have a lot to learn.  I'm 40 years old, got my head on straight and won't take unnessary chances.

I hope you visit this forum often.  You sure sound like you know your stuff and I am eager for knowledge.  I'm sure I'll be here often to read and learn.

AGAIN, THANK YOU.  

Newbie bikes...........Anything is better then nothing.
Rider safety course is more important than the selection of bike!
    I have owned heavy bikes and small light bikes, my skill was the make or brake factor for fun.......
  Get the lightest bike that will do what you need. It will help you be more confident. What if the bike falls over on a downhill slant when you are already tired? Make your own luck whenever you can. Cruising or touring or running errands or sucking up moonlight? Expect different things with different weight bikes. My Honda CBX250 Single was perfect to burn up small Irish roads, my Big Chrome Harley was perfect for impressing girls in New York,450 Honda Chopper hard tail was a rolling cartoon, my 65 Yamaha 250 is a beautiful piece of history that goes out for Ice Cream.......I have settled down to a R65 BMW for daily commuting.
Don't hurt yourself and learn what works for you!  

You're welcome :-)

Shellbird said...
I was also told that a light bike can get sucked under a truck much easier too. Is that true?

Not really, the problem isn't suction, it's turbulance. The turbulance buffets your torso, head and arms. This gives unexpected steering inputs to the bike. Very short wheelbase bikes change directions very easily, compared to longer wheelbase bikes, even at highway speeds. If you lean forward and tuck your elbows in while keeping your arm muscles loose, the turbulance can't steer the bike. If you're setting back, hanging onto the handgrips to keep yourself upright against the wind, anything that moves your shoulders will give the bike a steering input. A bike that's 8 feet long, is not going to change directions quickly at highways speeds unless you give it a massive steering input. A bike that's only 5 and a half feet long will change directions radically with a much smaller steering input. A 400 pound bike that's 8 feet long will feel more stable at speed, than a 600 pound bike that's only 7 feet long. That's why cruisers have raked and extended front ends on them.

You sure sound like you know your stuff...

LOL  I do tend to be a little over-assertive sometimes, even when I'm just giving an opinion. Mark it up to too many years of teaching :-)

regards,
Joe  

OK, next question - tried on a Ninja 250 and it felt tall, I had to be on my tippy-toes.  Does it matter or is fit and size exclusive to eachother?  My 883 I can pretty much flat foot vs. a bike that I can't, does that benefit outweigh the weight question?  

Thats crap my wife smaller than you rides a 883 new rider and does fine bike lite and power there when you need it hope this helps good luck later  

Shellbird,
 I think you will feel more comfortable on a bike that you can get both feet on the ground when stopped. I reduces bike lean and makes for a smoother transition from stopped to moving(less wobble on take off) Sportbikes like the nija, are designed with a higher ground clearance and consequently have higher seat height. In my humble opinion, comfort is the most important issue. As sloopoke stated, if you don't feel comfortable, you won't enjoy riding. And that means all aspects of riding including stopping on hills, and slow riding though parking lots at malls and gas stations. If you are "in love" with your 883 and it fits you, ride it. Don't let others tell you it's not your type of bike. As you gain experience you confidence level will increase dramatically and you will soon wonder why you had any qualms at all. Good luck and happy riding.  

Well, I opted for a Kawasaki Vulcan 500 as a stepping stone into the 883.  It just felt right, I want to be comfortable and build confidence and came to the conclusion a 250 wasn't the right answer for me.  This is a fantastic forum.  I'll be back.  

The Vulcan 500 is an excellent bike for starting on. It has good power. It's engine is a re-tuned Ninja 500 Parallel Twin. Re-tuned means less HP, but more torque, and a broader power band, which are things a newbie really needs. You have enough to worry about, without worrying if you have to upshift or downshift RIGHT NOW. It's got a low center of gravity, low seat height, and it will do 65-75 all day without any complaints.
When you start out, you are likely to keep the RPMS down, which is good. It's more forgiving. You will quickly decide the bike is underpowered.... it's not, you just have to get the rpms up.
The 2nd problem you will hit is that you will feel the engine is running to high on the highway. Being chain driven, a slightly smaller rear sprocket is only $20.

Reminds me, keep the chain lubed. Yeah it's a pain, but, last year, I converted a perfect chain with 4000 miles on it into slag. I ended up riding in a tropical storm, and I didn't lube it before hand, and I didn't have any lube with me. It didn't break, but mileage suddenly went from 50 to 40, and the chain had side to side slop (NOT GOOD). It all happened within about 3 days.  

shellbird,have you got youre motorcycle license yet?  

frbock said...
Reminds me, keep the chain lubed. Yeah it's a pain, but, last year, I converted a perfect chain with 4000 miles on it into slag. I ended up riding in a tropical storm, and I didn't lube it before hand, and I didn't have any lube with me. It didn't break, but mileage suddenly went from 50 to 40, and the chain had side to side slop (NOT GOOD). It all happened within about 3 days.

Ah, the joys of old tech chains. I remember ruining a new chain and sprockets, in about 300 miles on a trip one rainy day back in the spring of '91. The plastic 90 degree gas line fitting cracked on the carb and started dripping gas. I didn't notice that the chain was washed clean by the gasoline.

O-ring chains are immune to such things and that was the last time I let 'cheap' overcome good sense. I never again wasted my money on a chain that didn't have O-rings. I also never again ran pipes loud enough to cover up other noises :-)

regards,
Joe  

Well, I'm riding on my learner's permit, taking the MSC at the local college this weekend.  Neighbor got me started literally - practicing starts and stops and basically getting around the sub-division cul de sacs.  Been doing that as much as possible, and my friend came out to give me some pointers on turning into roads, looking ahead, etc...  got me to the point where TODAY WAS MY MAIDEN VOYAGE.  Took my normal 20 minute ride to work today.  I'm fine shifting and braking but shakey around curves still and ninety degree turns need work!  But FINALLY got my bike out of 3rd gear and up to 60 mph.  I rode my new motorcycle for the first time today and I'm hooked.  One thing...  dealership said it had a full tank, I only did about 50 miles on it - well I didn't realize I was riding on reserve so luckily my first trip was to the gas station, ran out of gas as I was pulling in -literally- a great learning experience that I will not replicate again.  

Need help understanding the controls for the gas tank on the Vulcan...  

BTW, couldn't be happier with the bike.  The shifting is nice and smooth and yes - forgiving, all the controls are easy and natural.  I'm really happy with the Vulcan - for now.  THANKS to all of you who responded.  I ordered the owner's manual and maintenance book but am pretty clueless until they arrive.  Have no clue how to lube a chain but I bet you guys figured out I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty - er - greasy...  WOO HOO!  I did it!!!  :-)