Hi everyone,

 Well, I had the opportunity to take the training this last weekend and I didn't do so well    The course cost $350.00. It consists of 5 hours of classroom instruction on Friday night, 6 hours of field training in a parking lot on Saturday afternoon and another 6 hours Sunday.  If you passed the written and skills test, then you were issued a VA temporary motors cyle license, which allowed students to go to DMV during the next 30 day period and get their licence endorsed for motor cylce operation.

I failed the evalution/test.  The instructor said I had two choices.

1) Retake the class. Well, I'm not too keen on spending another $350.00.  I'm of the opinion that I hired the company to train me to ride a bike, so I didn't get my money's worth. Some students need additional time and practice to get the skills down, such as myself.  Problem is, is that the company didn't provide that opportunity.  The class operated under a rigid schedule. Everyone was given 2 - 3 times to practice the maneuvers.  So, if you weren't able to master and become proficient within that small period of time, during those practice exercises, you're out of luck. The company took us through a series of exercise, progessing from the very basic skills to something a bit more challenging.  So, everyone waited in line for their turn.  

2) The instructor said the second alternative was to go home and practice. Well, the problem is, is that in VA, one can't operate a motorcycle with the licence.  So, how can a student be expected to practice, if they don't have a license?  If you don't have a license, you legally can't operate a motorcycle.  Catch-22 if you ask me.

So what are my options? I was really hoping to buy a motorcycle, but now it seems I won't be able to.  

Vince  

Yeah, I never did think the basic course was adequate for people who didn't already ride. Fortunately, on the very rare occasion when we had such a student in the class, we had the option of one-on-one tutoring of that individual off to the side, but if you don't have an extra instructor available and an oversized range, that isn't possible.

The only way to acquire the skills is to practice and while some of the advanced skills require that practice to be on pavement, most of the basic skills can be done in the yard. Since the advanced skills are for the most part, simply combinations of basic skills, practicing in your yard can make a huge difference in your skill level. When I was learning to teach physical skills, I was informed that it takes about 3,000 repetitions to make any physical activity automatic.

I expect if you take time to read what the law actually says, you'll find it doesn't apply to operation of the motorcycle on private property.

regards,
Joe  

Joe, thanks for the response.  I live in a condo complex with public parking.  Parking in the public parking requires that vehicles have to be registered and of course, insurance.  So, in order to obtain insurance coverage, you have to be a licenced driver. So, given the fact that I won't have a motorcycle endorsement on my license, do you see any issues with me "practicing" those manuevers in the condo parking lot?  I haven't bought the bike, yet. I'm just exploring all of these inter-related dependencies, before I plunk down my money.  I don't want to do anything illegal.

Vince.  

Hey Vince,
I feel for you man. I too just finished my basic course. What you may want to consider is seeing if someone you know has a bike they would be willing to let you practice on in a parking lot. They could ride up there and meet you, or maybe even haul it on a trailer. For practicing most skills it could even be a small off road bike, you wouldn't have turn signals but everthing else would be the same. You may even be able to rent a bike with a trailer for just such a purpose. The basic course that I took gave out a guide with diagrams of practice manuevers you can set up with traffic cones or even tennis balls cut in half. You may be able to find something similar on-line. Good Luck, and don't get too discouraged. Where there's a will there's a way.  

Well Vince, it's unlikely the condo management will permit an unlicensed operator to operate an unregistered motorcycle in the parking lot.

It sounds like you need to talk to some local riders and find out what resources are available to you.

regards,
Joe  

I went out on the Va. DMV website. It appears that what you did was to take the course without getting a learners permit. You are eligable to get a learners permit, that with a bunch of restrictions will let you ride (in mass, no nights, no passengers, no out of state, etc).
http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citizen/drivers/m_learners.asp

A lot of training courses will let you re-take the final range exam for free (at least in New England). It may be you were just too nervous when you took the test. My niece did well in the class, and flamed on the final exam. They took her back on the range right after class and had her do it again.

I was an absolute hellion during my class (just started). The people in my group were spasing about the exam, and they asked me why I wasn't nervous. I said I came to learn, and having the automatic license was just gravy. Besides, I pointed out, I could retake the final range test for free, and if I failed that, I could go to RMV and take the state test. The people around me got into the mantra, and within 5 min, we were beeping our little 125 and 250 horns, and having a grand old time. Everyone in my group passed easily.  

any opportunity to get on a dirt bike?  Maybe there is some hard packed areas that can mimic street riding?  

Getting a learners permit would be a good solution unfortunately, I don't know anyone that has a bike, as strange that may sound.   And Apex Cycle Education has no provision for retaking the exam, nor provide for individual, follow-on instruction. I'd have to retake the entire course and pay that fee, again.

Nearly 30 years ago, I had a Yamaha 750, full-dress and logged nearly 30,000 miles on it, most of it city driving with one cross-country excursion and many mountain trips, before I gave it up to pursue career and family.  A key difference between then and the skills test last week, is that I NEVER encountered any of the situations that were tested.  As an example, one of the tests were two, very tight, sequential U-turns within a box. I had problems with that one.  In the real world however, that situation simply never occurred in all the miles I accumulated.  Making a U-turn on city streets is a lot different than that test and I never had a problems with U-turns in an urban environment.

Another test, is navigating a tight left-hand curve through cones. The problem I had with that test, was that the sun was setting and the approach to that test was directly into that sunlight.  I couldn't see the cones, marking the entry into test area.  So I had to slow down on my approach to the entry cones.  But they knocked off points because I slowed down. In the real world however, slowing down, in those circumstances is a wise move.  But in the testing environment, I guess that doesn't count.

I guess I'll have to keep my options open and perhaps I'll run into someone who'd be willing to let me buddy ride with them into order to gain that experience.

Vince.  

I'm planing on taking the paid course in early October her in NJ, while looking for the course I found that NJ MVA offers a free course; they tend to be all booked up because they are free though. Check to see if Virginia's MotorVehicle Agency offers a free course it can't hurt. I know a few Dealers in my state also offer Riders education as well.

Rich  

Alright, I dug thru the Apex, Va DMV, etc, and given the price of the course (more than Mass) Here's what I think is your best course of action
1) Buy a cheap bike. I'm talking it runs, ugly as sin (you know.. kind of like the ones you learn on). KEEP IT SMALL.. get to that.
2) Get a learners permit
3) PRACTICE on back roads, do all the drills they taught you in MSF class.
4) When you are ready, sign up for the Rider test at your DMV.
5) Here's why I said small, cheap, and ugly. Small bikes handle really well in slow speed manuvers. I can make a little Honda 250 do things that I'd never even attempt on the GoldWing. My wife's 1st bike, a Savage 650 would be the perfect bike for this (get pilot jet adjusted to get rid of the backfire)...low center of gravity, very manuverable, low seat height.
6) Get fancy piece of paper with your picture on it.
7) Sell ugly bike for about what you spent for it (if Sept or later, keep it until Spring).
8) Buy a bigger bike
9) Have more fun


Fooey,
Couldn't make it a 12 step program  

Nice ideas! Learners permit is always an option, but I'd have to find someone who's willing to babysit me while I'm practicing and like I mentioned earlier, I don't know anyone with a bike.  So, I'm keeping my eyes/ears open for opportunities.

Vince.  

Mass allows Learners on the road without a Chaperone, New York didn't, and I see Va. doesn't either. But, you really don't need road time to pass the test, you need range time.

You need a bike to ride, you need little non-skid discs, and a parking lot.  If it's close, you have valid plates (don't need the license to get plates), and you don't do stupid stuff, odds are you won't get stopped.
At that point, you can practice all the drills that you had in class for a week, and you will be ready.

If you have a friend who rides, you could get in a couple of on road trips. Twenty minutes or so on each trip is all you need (quit while you are still doing all the moves correctly, otherwise your body will remember the bad stuff you did at the end).
The friend thing could also work if you find a motorcycle group in the area. Go to a meeting, introduce yourself, and tell them you're learning, and you need a big brother, most groups have people who'd love to help. See if you can find one who's taken or better, teaches MSF. You want a coach who's going to help you learn right.

BTW, you're Va. are you DelMarVa (ok, I'm supposed to call it Eastern Shore), Norfolk, or western?  

I'm in Florida.  It used to be that if you passed the written test, you could get a temporary 60 day permit and then you had to come back to pass the driving test.

I bought a Yamaha Vino 125cc scooter and took the test on that.  Passed easily.  Right after me, a guy tried and failed with a large motorcycle.  The turns and in-and-outs didn't look easy at all to do with a motorcycle.  I had the book ahead of time to see what the test required and practiced in a parking lot.

Don't know what the laws are there but if a small scooter with automatic transmission can be used for the test, I'd sure suggest it.  

If using your own bike for your training course please make sure it is mechanically sound and roadworthy and in full working order. Should a breakdown occur during training we will only be able to give basic help to restart the motorcycle.
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samflutch
  New Hampshire Treatment Centers  

Thanks for the input, some nice ideas! I live in northern VA, Leesburg, about 40 miles due west of DC. I'll check the local dealer to see if there are any clubs around.

Vince.