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redefyn
New User
| Posts: 15
| Joined: 05/08
Posted: 05/16/08 09:00 AM
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I live in the state of Iowa where we luckily are given the choice whether to wear helmets, but are required to wear our seatbealts. I never ride without a full face helmet, but seldom wear my seatbelt. Go figure. I am all for personal choice, and do not believe any government body should tell us how to conduct our lives, but it's done all the time. Speed limits are in place for public safety, OSHA sets safety standards for the work environment, governments pass smoking bans to protect us, gun laws are enacted...I could go on and on.
The point is that most people are responsible, but there is always the small percentage of the public that is not. There is no truly "free" society. If your state has a helmet law that you vehemently object to, organize and do your part to repeal it. In the meantime, put on a helmet, thumb the started button, and hit the road. Be glad that we have this great hobby and lifestyle to take us away from the realities of everyday life.
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frbock
User
| Posts: 221
| Joined: 11/07
Posted: 05/17/08 07:03 PM
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OSHA standards are to protect people who might not have a choice. If your choices are going into a situation where the air is dangerous, and the company refuses to issue protection, your choices are go in, get sick and maybe die, or refuse, guaranteed lose job, lose house, etc. Not exactly a free will scenario.
That said, I agree, I don't wear my seatbelt all the time (skip it in the city where side impact is possible, and the seatbelt could be a detriment, because, it could hold me in place as a car center punches me on my side).
Flip side, I haven't figured out any scenario under which I could be safer without a helmet.
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gad
New User
| Posts: 18
| Joined: 05/08
Posted: 05/26/08 10:57 AM
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As far as I know most states don't allow you to take your own life either. There is a line where I think the government should step in, and while it is nice to have the option instinct tells me wearing a helmet is the right thing to do.
2008 Suzuki C50T Black
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frbock
User
| Posts: 221
| Joined: 11/07
Posted: 05/26/08 05:25 PM
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Otter, If one of us has an accident, and we aren't wearing a helmet, who should pay the medical costs?
If you tell me, the rider, I'd agree. If I tell you the rider doesn't have enough money to cover the costs of the treatment, and ask you NOW who should cover the treatment. If you tell me that if the helmetless rider can't afford the insurance, and should be denied treatment, under the helmet/no helmet rules, I'd agree. I suspect under that is the real point of contention. Most people have the expectation that no matter what, they're going to patched up, whether they can afford it or not.
I'm a little more libertarian. I firmly believe you have the freedom to make any choice that you're willing to pay for. Relying on a social safety net to bail you out is not free will, or choice. It's an attempt to shift the costs of a bad choice to someone else, while claiming they have the right to make the bad choice.
I think either half is accurate. You either have the right to make bad choices, or, you have the right to expect support when something bad happens.
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Otter
New User
| Posts: 41
| Joined: 02/08
Posted: 05/27/08 09:00 AM
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Frbock, I have to agree with you about who pays when someone isn't wearing a helmet. I firmly believe in the freedom of choice. Of course, that freedom comes with a price. If someone does not want to wear a helmet or seatbelt, then their insurance should cost them more and all other parties would would not be held liable. Why should we all have to pay because someone "chooses" not to wear a helmet or seatbelt? I think this is a fair solution for all parties concerned. Unfortunately, our elected representatives don't have any common sense so none of them have come up with the idea.
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frbock
User
| Posts: 221
| Joined: 11/07
Posted: 05/28/08 06:37 PM
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Of course, it's also a matter of finding someone to insure you. Years ago my dad's boss bought a hot air balloon (needed a hobby after the 3rd heart attack). Of course you need insurance.
Lloyd's of London was perfectly willing to insure the balloon, but, would not carry a life insurance on him, and I believe his work policy didn't cover him either while he was in the balloon.
He went ballooning anyway.
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frbock
User
| Posts: 221
| Joined: 11/07
Posted: 05/29/08 05:12 PM
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On a personal note, I agree. The government's job is to protect us from the actions of others. Unfortunately, I think we've been outvoted by the ambulance chasers.
Best one (to prove point), about 20 years ago, a man took his rotary lawn mower, picked it up to trim his hedges. He slipped while his leg was under said flailing mower. You can guess the rest of his day.
The mower manufacturer was sued, and lost. Why??? Simple, there was no warning label on the mower that said to keep the wheels on the ground.
I think it all started with juries feeling sorry for the victim, and wanting to help them (the safety net). When the courts started doing that, the legislators decided that's where public opinion lay, and wrote laws in that vein.
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Tessaroo
New User
| Posts: 2
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 06/19/08 06:41 AM
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My husband shares your view. In Texas we pass a safety course pay a $5 fee / show proof of 10,000 medical insurance to avoid the helmet. However I ride the highway to work and my lid with visor sure comes in handy for thrown rocks / bugs /rain. I like to leave the lid under my seat (scooter yamaha) in the neighbor hood and to the store. MY sugest is we all need to be careful how we vote and who we vote for. Tessaroo
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Posted: 06/19/08 09:05 AM
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This has actually been a great thread of discussion! I understand the position of needing to defend a person's right to make their own choices -- I sure as heck don't like being told what I will or will not do when I feel that a choice should be left to me. Yet, I don't think I could say that the issue of helmets is indeed a victimless crime inasmuch we ALL suffer a financial penalty of some sort through our insurance premiums.
I live in Kansas - a no helmet law state. My own choice is to always wear a helmet, gloves, long pants, a protective jacket, and good closed toe shoes. I live with that choice even when it's 100 degrees out (you should see some of the looks I get from other riders!) because I know that I can not choose when an accident is coming my way. Why do I make that choice? Simply stated, I enjoy ALL of my freedoms too much NOT to make that choice.
the shared financial burden aside, I would encourage everyone on a bike to protect themselves as much as humanly and technologically possible. I think protective equipment is a damn good thing, smart, and responsible. But, in the end, it really is an individual choice and should not be made law by the state - but then forgive me for saying that it should be an individual law for every rider that each rider willingly enforces on themselves.
Just my few cc's on the topic -- Ride Safe! Ride Smart!
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